Ep. 1014: Scouting Strategies That Separate the Elite Deer Hunter from the Average with Andy May

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light Go farther, stay longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

00:00:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on the show, I’m joined by legendary whitetail bow hunter Andy May to discuss the scouting strategies and philosophies that separate the elite deer hunter from the average. All right, welcome back to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light. Today we are talking scouting, all things scouting, and we are joined by one of the very best in the business, my good friend and one of the most renowned, well respected DIY whitetail bow hunter in the world, the one and only Andy May, and our discussion today is going to revolve around the next level or two of scouting. Not the surface level, not the beginner, not the basics of where to scout, what to scout, what sign means, but rather how do you go from being a pretty good scout of white tail sign and of a property and of a deer and instead become elitd What were some of the changes that Andy May had to go through to go from average to great? What are the things that he wished he had known sooner? How do you actually look at all of this, look at all these different pieces of the puzzle and put them together into a cohesive plan and understanding of an area. We discuss all of this and much much more today, with of course a focus on spring scouting, since that’s the time of year we’re living in right now, but much of this could be applied to the rest of the deer hunting year as well, So we dive into everything from the differences between Andy May ten twenty years ago and what he does now. We discuss different things as far as what he looks at that the average deer hunter maybe doesn’t. We discuss what I just mentioned there a second ago, which is connecting all the dots into a single cohesive understanding. We discuss some conventional wisdom around scouting and where some of those things might be wrong. We discuss some of the changes that Andy has been making now with how he scouts because of the increasing understanding that everybody else has about deer behavior or reading maps for understanding where eigh quality deer hunting areas might be, and a whole lot more than that. I will leave it with this. Andy is one of the best in the business. And he’s not just a great deer hunter and understander of deer behavior, but also a humble, kind human being. So he’s a good person to talk to. He’s a great person to listen to, and I think you guys are going to enjoy this podcast. Without any further ado, let’s get to my scouting discussion with Andy May. All right, back with me on the show after too long of an absence is the one and only Andy May.

00:03:18
Speaker 3: Welcome back, Bardy.

00:03:21
Speaker 4: Good to be here, man, it has I didn’t realize it’s been so long. But yeah, I mean we used to you know, we used to try to do a couple of year, you know, and it’s uh, gets by, and but yeah, it’s good.

00:03:34
Speaker 3: Good to catch up with you always.

00:03:36
Speaker 2: Well it’s it’s funny, you know, we’ve we’ve done so many of these, and I know that you are in such high demand with every deer hunting podcast that I think I’ve started feeling bad asking you to do them because I know that you’re getting these all the time. So all that said, I finally was like, you know what, I’m not gonna feel bad anymore. I’m gonna get Andy May on the horn. We got to catch up. The world needs to hear from him on this podcast. But in all seriousness, I’m glad it worked out. I appreciate you making the time, and what I want to do is kind of do a speed round almost see if we can pack as much information as possible into a sprint of a deer hunting conversation. Because you have always been about efficiency, I think if there’s a lot of ways we could describe you and your approach, but I think efficient is right up towards the top of the list. So I want to see if we can have one of the most efficient podcasts for teaching people about how to take the next step as a woodsman and as someone who is scouting for Intel. And where I wanted to start was with a little bit of imagination here, So bear with me, Andy. Imagine Andy May of twenty sixteen. Okay, think back to yourself ten years ago and try to recall the things you believed about scouting, the approach that you took, the things that you did ten years ago when you were trying to figure out where to hunt or how to hunt a buck or a piece of public or a piece of private, whatever it was. How does twenty twenty six Andy May’s scouting routine and approach differ from yours ten years ago?

00:05:28
Speaker 3: What stands out is different? Now? Yeah, that’s a good question. I haven’t really thought about that, but.

00:05:40
Speaker 4: Well, one thing that comes to mind is, back then, I definitely felt the need, like if I was going to go somewhere new, I felt the need to get eyes on that ground, to walk that ground, and to thoroughly scout it before I really felt comfortable dive it in there and hunting it effectively. And I believe at that time, and and prior to that, I probably did because I didn’t have or maybe I was developing a more.

00:06:29
Speaker 3: I don’t know, a more.

00:06:33
Speaker 4: More, I was developing more experience and more confidence.

00:06:37
Speaker 3: Maybe at that time that I.

00:06:38
Speaker 4: Really needed to like see it firsthand, to really feel confident to dive into an area and feel like I was going to be effective.

00:06:48
Speaker 3: Versus now, I still have that.

00:06:51
Speaker 4: I still feel that way, and I still do that, but I also feel confident.

00:07:00
Speaker 3: I feel more confident.

00:07:01
Speaker 4: Now that I can look at maps and just kind of hit the ground running and and sometimes part of the reason I’ve kind of tried to do that and implement that into my my hunting a little bit is because I have I have friends and I’ve talked to some other guys that I respect as hunters, and that’s their approach. They actually prefer not to walk ground and thoroughly pick it apart.

00:07:33
Speaker 3: And so.

00:07:37
Speaker 4: The reason they do that is because they don’t want to feel like married to a spot. You know, like if you go and you scout it and you walk it and it’s like, all right, this is where I’m gonna hunt. These are the trees I’m gonna hunt out of, you almost you almost get married to that spot.

00:07:51
Speaker 3: So when I.

00:07:55
Speaker 4: Learned about that approach, I heard about that approach mainly Jared Scheffler, but I have a couple other buddies too, But Jared did I talk about it a lot. We just had a great conversation about you know, kind of touched on this a little bit the other day on my drive.

00:08:11
Speaker 3: But that’s a skill set in itself to.

00:08:13
Speaker 4: Be able to just kind of briefly look over maps, get the lay of the land, and to based on what you see kind of nowhere to go on that piece of ground where you potentially could or should get into, you know, some good hunting. And that’s something that I feel way more confident in doing now and I actually try to do that on purpose in some cases to develop that skill set, where back in twenty sixteen and probably before that, I didn’t really have that confidence. Yes, I could go in and I could run and gun and kind of feel things out, but I feel like I really wanted to like explore every inch of a piece of ground, for instance, like if I got a piece of permission ground or something, or you know, I always want to just walk everything and figure everything out, or a piece of public ground when I’m out of state, just walk it all, walk all those good areas and really get a feel for it. And I still like to do that because that’s ultimately that’s my favorite way. I like taking in information and you know, reading the sign, reading the terrain, and then kind of figuring out where, you know, where where the deer a living, if they’re bedding on the property, where they’re feeding, how are they traveling, and how can I take advantage of that.

00:09:32
Speaker 3: But it is a skill set itself to be able to just look at.

00:09:35
Speaker 4: Maps and aerial photo or a terrain you know, a topographical map, and then just dive in and have that confidence through probably developed through lots of experience, you know, doing that over the years, but just being able to go in there without having to walk every inch of it and get yourself into some some pretty high percentage areas. I think that’s a good skill set to have, especially if you’re or a traveling guy like me. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve went to a state or piece of ground that I’ve scouted I feel comfortable with and this is this is where you know I’m going to be hunting, and it’s overrun with people or I lost access last minute, and it’s like now I have to like, you know, shuffle and find something new. So it’s a it’s a good skill set to have to be able to kind of make things happen on the fly and and be efficient, you know, being efficient, which you know I do try to be that way because I’m living on time, but you know, being efficient certainly through you know, thoroughly scouting an area and knowing the ins and out of it and knowing where the deer beded, knowing where they’re feeding, Knowing how they travel, knowing your access all that stuff really increases efficiency. But sometimes that stuff falls apart a traveling hunter, when you don’t own your ground, sometimes that stuff, you know, things have a way of falling apart, or a wrench getting thrown in your plan. And to be able to pivot and make something happen when you’re on a short time schedule, you know, that’s efficiency also, and that’s developed just through a lot of experience and gaining confidence into just diving into a new piece of ground. Looking at a map really quick. Oh you know what I know, Dear like this type of habitat. There’s a lot of diversity here. I like the way these terrain features match up with this diversity. It’s far away from access points, That’s where I’m going to go. So I would say that’s the first thing that came to mind when you ask that question, is just that I actually don’t feel the need to always walk aground thoroughly to be able to hunt it effectively. And maybe I’m not going in there and killing the biggest buck in the neighborhood, but I feel like I could go in and have a good hunt in most cases.

00:11:57
Speaker 2: So that ability to be able to you know, you know, you said not not go into the season married to a spot, so instead of kind of studying the maps from a far east scouting and that gives me a game plan. We’ll call this swinger scouting. Since you’re not married to it. You you’re just getting the sense of things, try and dabbling, get getting a taste.

00:12:22
Speaker 3: Is that something? And I think I know the answer.

00:12:24
Speaker 2: You kind of alluded to this, but I want you to explicitly say this, whether this is true or not.

00:12:29
Speaker 3: Can you get to that point.

00:12:32
Speaker 2: Where you can do what you just described just by having a Spartan Forge or on X subscription and studying maps like crazy and really learning all the mechanics and all the tips and all the little details and really becoming an expert in escouting. Can you do what you just described and be successful simply by becoming an E scouting guru?

00:12:55
Speaker 3: Or do you first.

00:12:56
Speaker 2: Have to go through the twenty years of all on the ground, pile on the ground stuff that you described until you can actually then have the ability to be an EAT scouting guru and have it actually pay off on the ground.

00:13:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, that’s another good question.

00:13:13
Speaker 4: You know, I think if there’s a time where you can be effective with just eat scouting, now’s the time. Because the maps are incredible. There’s tons of information on what white tails do, where they live, the types of terrain that they prefer across all parts of the country. So if you are if you were a kind of a student of that, and you took in a lot of content, maybe read some articles and some books from you know, experienced hunters, listen to podcasts. Yeah, I think a guy probably could you know, be effective doing that. Is he going to be as effective without all that experience, that on the ground experience. I don’t believe so, but I think he could. I think he could be successful. Just just the amount of information that’s out there now compared to like when you and I started, it’s just, you know, it’s incredible. And if you learn to read a map, I mean you can watch YouTube videos on how how to read a map like an expert. You know, where you know it took. I didn’t really have that. You didn’t have that. None of the guys that came up before now really had that. We had to just kind of learn that as we go. Yeah, and lots of trial and eron, and you know, guys that are coming up now, they can bypass a lot of that time and a lot of those mistakes and probably be you know, pretty darn effective. But I do think that experience of you know, walking various types of ground, various types of terrain that the white tail calls home. I think that’s invaluable and I think part of the.

00:15:00
Speaker 3: Reason that.

00:15:03
Speaker 4: In some cases I am efficient. I’m certainly not always efficient. I know people think that, but trust me, there’s times when I’m not. But it is from that experience, that groundwork that was laid prior to this, you know, all those years of learning and making mistakes and walking you know, different types of areas. I always try to challenge myself, like new areas and new types of terrain.

00:15:32
Speaker 3: It’s just something that.

00:15:35
Speaker 4: Inside of me that I always wanted to do is just just be like really versatile. And I don’t know if it was just that like a strong just urge to learn. I just wanted to learn, and then I feel like I would start to get a grasp on something, and then I’d hear somebody else talk about white tails in a different state or a different type of terrain, and I was like, wow, you know, like, I don’t know any of this, and I thought I knew white tails, you know, so then so now I just want to learn all about that. And so that would kind of lead me towards an area or a state where I wasn’t super comfortable with, wasn’t super confident, but I just wanted to learn. And I mean, I still have that feeling today, even you know, after all these years, I still have that that’s.

00:16:20
Speaker 3: Such a strong urge to learn.

00:16:22
Speaker 4: And I feel like, yes, I’ve learned a lot, and I do feel like I know a lot, but I feel like there’s just so much that I don’t know still, and so much that I’m not confident in, and I just there’s just that constant, you know, that constant craving for information and experiences and just to learn.

00:16:43
Speaker 3: Like, for instance, like.

00:16:47
Speaker 4: I was talking to you a bit before we started the podcast, but I just got back from my second trip in down to Illinois to scout hunt there this fall. I haven’t hunted in Illinois in probably eight or nine years. I used to go pretty regularly, and I’ve already made two scouting trips down there, and it’s just one of those instances where you know, this is the way I’m going to tackle this hunt. I want to make the most of this tag, and I’m going to go out and I’m going to scout. We got access to a private piece of eighty acres, and then other than that, I’ve been scouting public land because I don’t want to put all my eggs in basket, all the eggs in my basket for that eighty acres. Even though it could be decent, I wasn’t super impressed with the sign on it, to be honest with you, and so I just started walking, you know, various pieces of public ground. And I’m just going to keep doing that. And I’m just trying to build this kind of rolodex of information in areas where I find that big deer have been living, or the way it sets up, the way the train sets up, maybe the cover and the diversity.

00:17:59
Speaker 3: That is then on that ground.

00:18:02
Speaker 4: It lends itself to bucks surviving, you know, to older age. And it’s been you know, I love it. You know, it’s just like so much information in new ground. But I’m really starting to feel, already after two trips, like really confident that I’ll be able to get something on the ground, and it very well might be on one of the public pieces. That’s where I found the biggest sign and the most you know, the most mature buck sign by far. So this hunt in particular, that’s how I decided to tackle it, as opposed to just you know, shooting down there in November and getting in some rough funnels that look good. I feel confident I could go do that and probably, you know, if I’m not super picky, probably kill a good deer. You know, I’ve I’ve demonstrated that I can do that. But I just chose to tackle this hunt this way. And there’s other hunts that I have this fall that I’m going to tackle a completely different way and not scout at all and just kind of show up and try to make things happen. And I do that by choice. A lot of cases. I do that by choice. So what’s what’s what will help with my efficiency in Illinois is I’m gonna I’m gonna go down again and then.

00:19:18
Speaker 3: Probably one more time because it’s not far. It’s only five and a half hours.

00:19:22
Speaker 4: So I picked an area that I can get get to relatively quickly. But what’s going to help with my efficiency is that I’m going to have dozens of spots. You know, at least I would say that I’m going to have confidence in I already found two or three different areas that I can’t tell mature bucks were living, found their on their beds, found their sign kind of know what they’re doing out of their beds, got a you know, a rough gauge on when that activity happened. And you know, if I strike out with one, some other spots that I feel confident in, and I’m just kind of trying to build on that. So I’m going to have kind of like maybe not playing ABCD like in order, but I’m going to have lots of options where I’m not going to be you know, stuck in a situation where you know, I pick out a couple of rough funnels on that eighty acres and nothing’s panning out, and then I don’t know what to do, and then I’m yes, exactly, So I’m going to have some you know, I’ll be able to pivot and go to something else really quickly if I need to, and that does help with efficiency. That can turn you know, a kind of a dead end trip or a failed not a failed, but a struggle a struggle trip into success pretty quickly.

00:20:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, so imagine and maybe you don’t need to imagine this. Maybe you actually have real life examples of this where a buddy was with you. But imagine you had a friend with you when you were scouting there in Illinois, or maybe you agreed to mentor a hunter.

00:21:11
Speaker 3: And let’s say it’s not a new hunter.

00:21:13
Speaker 2: This is like your average serious deer hunter, like somebody really loves it, but kind of average out all those people. Let’s like the average wired to hunt listener. Let’s say if you were to have that person walking alongside of you while you’re scouting this Illinois property, or imagine this being like a friend of yours.

00:21:34
Speaker 3: What do you think that you would be.

00:21:36
Speaker 2: Paying attention to that that person would miss? Like when you go with your buddies, what’s the thing that you’re seeing and thinking about in cataloging and they are like off in some other total different world or they totally miss this thing and you’re like, oh no, AB and C was the important thing and they were thinking it was E, F and G. Do you have a sense of what that might be, Like, what is the average person missing when they scalp that Andy May is actually looking at paying attention to and and and seeing as important.

00:22:08
Speaker 3: I think the average guys is.

00:22:11
Speaker 4: Probably you know, okay at seeing the obvious stuff. The obvious stuff would be, you know, you’re walking you you walk into you know, maybe maybe we’re talking some some hilly country or something, and you’re walking into the timber and you’re working the ridges, and you start to see some rubs and some scrapes, and they’re like, oh, you know, like here’s some here’s some stuff.

00:22:39
Speaker 3: You know, a buck was here, a buck laid this sign down.

00:22:44
Speaker 4: I think probably the average guy, and certainly like early on Andy may would have seen that and probably not really thought about, Okay, why is this here? You know, where is this coming from? What is this relating to? What does this sign mean?

00:23:03
Speaker 3: Is this.

00:23:05
Speaker 4: You know, is this sign here because there’s a buck living nearby? Or is this an area that a buck isn’t really vetted by? But a lot of does live in here in the in the sign is marked up kind of around in and around this do activity. That’s the kind of stuff I’m picking up on now because I have more experience where the average guy would probably just see the sign, get excited, not really understand why.

00:23:34
Speaker 3: Not always, but a lot.

00:23:35
Speaker 4: Of cases I can find sign like that, And if I investigate enough, if I look at the maps, I see where the sign is, I start checking, you know, if it’s ill country, I start looking for those drainages. I look start looking for those little knobs that aren’t shown on a topographical map, you know, in those drainages where bucks would would typically bet I’m starting to explore these and see if I can find some evidence of a book that’s actually like living here in this system, living here on this ridge system, and you know, I’m looking for dough betting. I’m looking for all of that, and I’m trying to put the puzzle pieces together. A lot of times, when I find that sign, I can connect all these pieces, and the more pieces I get, I can almost, you know, sometimes fairly accurately estimate when that sign was laid down. I mean, maybe not to the week, but it could be a mid October type thing, or it could be a late October, it could.

00:24:39
Speaker 3: Be more of a rough thing.

00:24:41
Speaker 4: So I think the average guy misses that they see the sign, but they don’t know how to tie it all together. Like maybe they can find rubs and scrapes and trails, and that’s all great that stuff is important, but how does that relate to what else is going on? Is there dough betting? Because dough betting is sometimes hard to identify unless you’re open up deer. I mean you’re not commonly finding like depending on the train, like well used beds down to the dirt near a hill country you find little little depressions that you I mean, you wouldn’t even know it’s a bed unless you’re really really looking. Same with the buck beds. He’s the one we found in Illinois and this ridge system. It wasn’t were down to the dirt. It was just a little knob, a little depression there, and then when you look, you found a rub. And then we worked up the ridge we found another one of his rubes. These are big, you know, like the size of my between my calf and thigh, and found another rub. It all related back to that bed and he was working up the ridge. There was some little water holes up there. We figured he was staging there. There was agg corn flat up there. So we started putting these pieces together and it was it was clearly a deer that was living in there through a fair part of the season. He laid down a lot of sign and that tells us so, Okay, this is a deer that’s probably in here in October, you know before he’s really moving around searching for doze. So it’s just little things like that, you know, It’s just I think I experienced woodsman, experienced scouter just as able to gather more of the pieces of the puzzle. And when you have more pieces of the puzzle, your chances go up. And the fact that I know, like in hill country where bucks tend to bed, you know, there’s certain features that mature bucks tend to bet on, So I know where to look.

00:26:37
Speaker 3: You know, I can look at a map, I know where to look. I can go in and check it.

00:26:41
Speaker 4: If it’s not there, it’s not there, I go to the next one that has those features that I’m looking for. Eventually I find it. If it’s a marsh or a swamp or something like that, I know what they like. I know where they like to bed. Doesn’t mean every feature is going to have that, because there’s just not that many mature bucks around most cases, But you just keep searching until you find that. And when you know, when you know those spots, you know how to find them and you know how to pick them out from a map. You can go right to them and you can check them. You can look for that sign and if it’s there. Now I’m trying to tie in those other things. Okay, what’s the timing of this? How can I figure that out? What’s the food sources? How is he getting from point A to point B? Is he here during the rut? Is it something that you know it’s a it’s a bed, but it’s not like super well used.

00:27:30
Speaker 3: Or is it a bed that’s.

00:27:31
Speaker 4: Like worn down to the dirt in the marsh on a little island or on a little point. That’s a lot of You know that there’s a lot of information there that you can dissect and then come up with a hypothesis. And like I said, the more pieces of the puzzle you get, the better your hypothesis is. So the average guy misses out on all of that, and the more experienced guy can pick that apart rather quickly because he knows what he’s looking for. As far as betting food sources, you know, fairly straightforward to find in most cases. It can be a little bit more challenging in the timbered areas, but you know you’re looking for, you know, prior depending on where you’re at. You might be looking for honeysucker, you’re looking for acorns. You know, oak flats, certain acorns produced certain times a year, so you know, if you can identify those, and you’re finding the sign near those, that can help you narrow things down. So there’s a lot there, and you certainly don’t need all that information to be successful. But the more that you can gather, the more efficient you’re going to be, the more you’re going to have just a better chance of being successful. And I’m still learning, you know, I’m still learning. I felt like we put a lot of pieces of the puzzle together in a lot of these areas we searched in Illinois, like where I feel confident enough to like go in there or send a buddy in there, and he’s going to have, you know, a decent hunt, I feel like, and maybe even a good chance to have an encounter.

00:29:05
Speaker 3: And really that’s that’s what you’re looking for. That’s all you can ask for.

00:29:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, but yeah, I would say the average guy is just seeing the obvious. He’s seeing the trails, he’s seeing the ropes, he’s seeing the scrapes, but he’s not able to tie everything together. Another example would be, you know, you might find, like on a certain rich system around a point, you might find all this sign and you’re like, you’re so focused on that. But then you know, maybe the experience hunter, the experienced scouter sees that sign and he’s like, all right, there’s good sign here.

00:29:44
Speaker 3: There’s a good, good mature buck sign. What’s over here on this part of the ridge? Oh?

00:29:49
Speaker 4: Here, So he’s going to explore the rest of it. Maybe he finds dough betting over here. Now he’s looking at the train and how that all ties together. It’s like, okay, you know there’s bucks sign over here on this point or on this this drainage. I’m seeing a lot of dough activity over here, lots of droppings. I’m finding beds on these flats or on these points. How is this all tied together? Okay, Well, there’s a nice little drainage, you know, a little drainage that comes up, and the way the train works around that drainage, it kind of connects us.

00:30:22
Speaker 3: That’d be a great ambush you know, an ambush.

00:30:24
Speaker 4: Point, and that’s something you know, an experienced guy would like. He’d find that first bit of information. Now he’s looking for other information in that area, whether it’s food, whether it’s does, whether it’s you know, water or you know, brows or whatever, it is the nearest scrape, and then he’s tying that all together and then finding different ways the terrain might set up to give him an ambush.

00:30:53
Speaker 3: Spot, especially with a bow.

00:30:56
Speaker 4: So that that’s kind of like how my brain is working when I’m gathering all this information, where the average guy is probably going to struggle, you know, tying all that together.

00:31:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the more experience he has, the more he does this, you know that that will come. It comes with time. I certainly didn’t have that.

00:31:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like it to to rephrase a little bit of what you’re saying there in my own mind, it sounds like the first step and what the average guy or girl typically does is they can they can identify the pieces of the puzzle. And what the next level is is, as you said, it’s connecting all those dots, is putting all those pieces together. And the way you were able to do that is by looking at the individual pieces and asking like three questions. It’s when, it’s why, it’s how, It’s like when did this happen? Why did this happen?

00:31:51
Speaker 3: How? Did it get here?

00:31:53
Speaker 2: And by building what that story is in your mind to connect all those pieces, that’s how you make sense of it and then insert yourself into the right place at the right time to take advantage of the next time that story plays out.

00:32:06
Speaker 3: Right. That’s that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:32:11
Speaker 2: But I have a question related to that, to the assumption that a lot of people have, which is like, Okay, I’m an average hunter. I can identify the pieces, and I think maybe that I wonder if that might be wrong because these days, if you watch YouTube videos like you said, if you listen to podcasts, there’s so much information out there about how to identify the pieces.

00:32:32
Speaker 3: Right.

00:32:32
Speaker 2: There’s so many people saying this is how you find betting on a top of map. There’s so many videos that help you see like, hey, you need to know this feature of this feature and this feature and that’s where they’re going to be. You’ll hear all these different experts say, all right, marsh betting is XYZ, hill country betting is ABC. Farm country betting is EFG right, And I think there’s a whole generation of deer hunters who are being raised on that and now are like indoctrinated in this conventional wisdom of what betting is supposed to be or what travel is supposed to be, and they have like a blueprint for it, and it’s supposed to be replicated exactly how it shows on the map on YouTube should be exactly how it is on the ground. I know that you have seen all that and have heard all that, and.

00:33:20
Speaker 3: We talk about a lot of that.

00:33:22
Speaker 2: But I’m curious, are there any of these pieces of conventional wisdom that you’ve found to not hold up in real life as much as either we all think or as much as you once thought, even like, you know, is there something like, hey, Buck’s always bet on the end of a point, or Bucks always been in a high spot in the marsh, or deer always going to take the settle?

00:33:47
Speaker 3: Whatever?

00:33:47
Speaker 2: Is there any one of those kinds of things that now in twenty twenty six you’re like, you know what, it’s not as much that way as everybody says, or it’s not as much as I thought. Does anything come to mind that has now that you’ve seen some conventional wisdom turned upside down or be a little bit different than you thought.

00:34:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think I think the basics are uh.

00:34:13
Speaker 3: I guess like the basic information that we’ve all heard is certainly it’s certainly true. Like those are.

00:34:22
Speaker 4: Things that I see, you know, leeward sides of ridges. Yes, I see I see beds there, I see deer there. I have encounters there. But I’ve also seen embedded on the windward ridge, you know, the windward side. So yeah, there’s there’s things that I see that that seem to go against the grain. But the more I talk to people that are familiar in that type of habitat, that they talk about it all the time, you know, to them, that’s that’s pretty normal. But if you were just to listen to know, you know, certain podcasts or read certain articles, you wouldn’t even think that would even be a possibility, wouldn’t even look over there. So yeah, you know, that one comes to mind. Certainly, I’ve had some great hunts on the windward side of the ridge, and that’s you know, if you were to just to read about ill country or listen to certain podcasts, you would think that that was like a ghost town.

00:35:26
Speaker 3: You wouldn’t even mess Yeah, it wouldn’t even mess with it.

00:35:29
Speaker 4: So another thing that kind of comes to mind is, you know, you hear. You hear so often about the down wind side of dough betting and in certain types of habitat, but there’s there’s no doubt that that is an area that bucks gravitate towards. There’s no doubt about it. When when the does are betted and the bucks are making their rounds, that is a great place to be, depending on what type of habitat and cover that is. That like the down one side of betting sounds like, you know, real cut and dry. Okay, find where the dose are, I’m gonna set up just down wind of it. But it’s not always that simple. I mean, you know, in a marsh or something where there’s a lot of hard edges and the betting is very specific. It’s easier in hill country where there might be three betted on this little point and there might be you know, four betted down the ridge on a different point. It’s like they’re kind of scattered through all. It can be a little trickier. But the thing that I find, the thing that I found even more consistent than that. And this is just my opinion and I’ve heard other people mention it, But if you can find like the the the edge of like say, you know, deer coming from bed to feed like a bed defeed.

00:37:01
Speaker 3: Pattern like dose.

00:37:02
Speaker 4: For the most part, all year long, they’re kind of on a bed defeed pattern. That’s what does do. The bucks are the ones that really change their behavior throughout the fall. Food sources can change so that that travel pattern can change for those does. But when those bucks, when it’s when it’s time to go, and those bucks are the does are ready and the bucks are looking finding those food sources or those betting areas, those those areas that they travel through.

00:37:29
Speaker 3: What I’m finding a.

00:37:31
Speaker 4: Lot and what I’ve been able to capitalize on a lot is these bucks will cross section or perpendicular check these trails going in and out, not necessarily the downwind side of betting, but they’ll for instance, like I’m trying to come up with an example that you guys will be able to visualize where this makes sense. But in a marsh setting, you know, you got the marsh betting up here, you got the food you know, maybe to the south, Well, those travel routes in between those are really good checkpoints for bucks when they’re on the move. They’re not necessarily hitting the down winds side, which I’m sure some bucks are, but that that area where they’re traveling through, either just off the food source or closer to the bedding, those are great spots to be where there might be several travel routes of different dough groups coming back to bed are going to feed. But those bucks can cross. They could take one route and they can cross several trails. They can cross several dough travel routes and they can instantly know what dose are in heat, or if there’s one in heat, or where she’s at, what trail she took. And he’s taking one route where you know, if there’s scattered do betting everywhere, he has to really make the rounds and check those individuals.

00:38:50
Speaker 3: So I have seen that. I don’t I don’t think that necessarily goes against the grain.

00:38:55
Speaker 4: But I haven’t heard that talked about as much because there’s there’s been many times where I’ve sat down end of doll betting and then I you know, it’s like the does are in there, it’s the rut and it’s like nothing’s happening.

00:39:09
Speaker 3: And I’ve killed there too.

00:39:11
Speaker 4: But that’s something that I’ve really seen and I’ve been able to capitalize on, especially in a scenario where you do have that like main betting. It could be like a river bottom system, and there’s there’s different no groups or a or a marsh or a swamp or anything, but they’re all kind of coming out in the jet same general direction, going to a destination, food source, that line of movement, and then you’re looking for that perpendicular movement that the bucks would take. That’s been that’s been very very consistent. I found that to be very very consistent. So that’s something.

00:39:52
Speaker 2: Well, let me let me let me pause you there and and pivot you just a little bit, because I’ve seen that same thing. And as you were describing that, my mind wandered just a bit to how you know we all kind of kind of to the beginning of question. Everyone kind of knows this stuff. Now, if you are, if you’re a half decent, half serious deer hunter these days, we all know where they’re supposed to be, right, we all know what they’re supposed to do.

00:40:26
Speaker 3: There’s a whole lot.

00:40:28
Speaker 2: Of folks that are pretty competent now with your conventional approaches. But if you hunt public land or public land or pressure private that you share with other people, that means that everyone that you’re out there competing with to some degree also likely knows the same stuff you know, and is also likely looking for the same things you’re looking for and approaching things the same way. So if we’re all doing things the same way, we’re all going to get the same results, which on pressure ground or public ground means you’re probably all not doing all so well because you have to be exceptional. You have to be doing the opposite of the average if you want success in those settings. So when it comes to your scouting in these pressured places, whether it’s public or private, today in twenty twenty six, when there’s more people than ever who know this stuff, when there’s more people than ever who take it really serious and spend a lot of time out there doing this stuff, maybe there’s maybe there’s not more total hunters total, but I still believe there’s more super serious hunters than there’s ever been. So that being the case, do you scout differently at all, knowing like oh yeah, everyone’s looking for the same stuff, or oh yeah everyone has seen this, betting they already know, like this high spot in the swamp is it got to go check this? Or if you come across the no brainer obvious like oh wow, there’s a buck living here. This is amazing. All the sign screams it, but it’s almost too obvious. And you know that there’s four other guys that hunt here and they probably have all seen the same thing, and so they probably are all going to be camping out in this spot. Have you ever found yourself having to almost like reverse psychology the other hunters to try to find the next peel, the next layer of the onion back to avoid these obvious places to some degree? Is that Are you to that point where you’re thinking about that at all?

00:42:29
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a way, because I do feel that way. This example came up when we were in Illinois. I looked at them app I looked at all the access routes or all the all the parking spots. I looked at the hardest to get to place on the whole property. And this was a big, decent sized chunk, not huge, but you know it was a good clip back there.

00:42:55
Speaker 3: I found the hardest to get to. You had to cross a river, you had to go over several ravines. It was the longest walk.

00:43:03
Speaker 4: And then I looked for the terrain that I like to find, you know, potential betting, some good funnels, good terrain that you know, if a buck was, if there was a mature buck living on this property, that’s where I would guess he would be. And we hiked back there immediately found the big buck bed almost where I dropped the pin, Literally almost where I dropped the pin.

00:43:28
Speaker 3: In fact, we were, we were, we stopped. I was with my buddy, Justin Wright.

00:43:32
Speaker 4: And another guy, my other buddy, Luke Levitt, and we were sitting on this ridge and I said, I said, you see that knob right there.

00:43:39
Speaker 3: We went to this main drainage, I go, you see that little knob right there.

00:43:42
Speaker 4: Because Luke hadn’t hunted a lot of public land, he had had a lot of permission land. And I said, that’s exactly the type of setup I see mature bucks betting in this type of pill country. You notice how it’s not the main point. It’s like we’re in this main drainage and there’s the main point over there, the main point over there, but this is just this little knob that doesn’t even show up on a topographical map. That’s where that buck beds. And I said, you get in here. The wind’s swirling. He’s sitting there, he can see deer dumping, dumping off all the points around him. If something approaches from behind, he’ll be able to hear it. He’s got the wind blowing over his back. I was like, it’s it’s perfect. It’s almost bulletproof. And you know, Justin chimes in. Justin’s super, super experienced with hell country. He goes, I see the same exact thing, man, I said, Justin.

00:44:35
Speaker 3: Go over there and check that.

00:44:36
Speaker 4: I said, I go, I go go over and check that nob and he goes over there. He goes, there’s a huge bed here. And that’s that’s the one where we started scouting, you know, up the ridge. We found the rub, we found the rube line, we found we determined where he was going. Come to come to find out, that’s where all the trail cameras were. Also like the hardest to get two plays. We found cell cameras, we found SD card cameras like literally all along this deer sign And I was like, man, there’s just like it’s just people just know now. So how do you beat that the way? I don’t know if you can beat it with scouting. I think you can beat it with just being relentless. As far as the amount of scouting, you do, you’re gonna run into that. And that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t hunt that spot, because when I see cell cameras and hard to reach spots, that’s telling me a guy’s probably not hunting it unless he’s getting pictures. Yeah, So there’s a lot of guys like that right now. So I don’t let the cell cameras, specifically the cell cameras deter me too much. But they also probably known when that buck’s in there. You know, potentially, you know, some bucks wise up to that pretty quick. So you can be relentless with your scout. You can find you could almost make yourself undeniable. Like you you’re going to find spots like that. We you’re gonna find a hundred more like that, so that you can just boom boom boom, and you’re you’re going to be so prepared that you’re just going to outwork the competition. I like that, you know, I think the guy that works the hardest and is the most thorough should be the most successful. But that’s a grind, and that’s a lot of time, and you know it’s hard to do, and you know, the more experienced you are, you can probably be more effective with that. Another thought is, you know you can be more versatile than the next guy. And that’s what I lean into with my hunting. Yes, Like there’s the basic kind of ambush type hunting. You know, you’re scouting the sign, you’re looking for an ambush point, you’re setting up, and you’re trying to make it happen, you.

00:47:06
Speaker 3: Know, when that deer is on the move.

00:47:09
Speaker 4: I think being versatile as a hunter, being able to hunt off the ground, being able to you know, still hunt, still hunt through an area and you know, read and react to what’s.

00:47:21
Speaker 3: Happening right now.

00:47:22
Speaker 4: Where Like I’m going in there and I’m scouting that sign in Illinois and we just found it, you know, a couple of days ago, trying to.

00:47:30
Speaker 3: Gauge when that’s happening. And that’s all great, and.

00:47:33
Speaker 4: We might nail it and we might go in there and have a great hunt. But a lot of guys would shy away from just slipping around the timber. You know, there’s pressure everywhere. Okay, you know, I’m gonna keep moving. I’m gonna keep scouting. I’m hunting while I while I scout, I’m slipping along, I’m glassing, I’m moving trying to just read and react to what’s in front of me. I love to hunt that way, and that’s led me into It’s got me some skills.

00:47:58
Speaker 3: It’s led me.

00:47:58
Speaker 4: Into the next spot where I might set up an ambush. It’s led me into bumping deer and now it’s like, oh man, I just bumped a big one. Now I’m in the game with this deer. There’s that, there’s decoy strategies, there’s calling, there’s all these things that you can become more versatile and not so like one dimensional as a deer hunter. And that’s one thing. Like when guys asked me about my style of deer hunting, I really have a hard time answering that because, like when I start thinking about all the bucks I’ve taken it specifically in the like last fifteen years, like they’re all so different.

00:48:35
Speaker 3: I’ve called them in.

00:48:36
Speaker 4: I’ve snuck into their beds, their betting areas and hunted them from the ground because I was so close I didn’t want to get up in a tree. I’ve tickled the antlers together when I know they’re they’re betted sixty yards away and got them to come investigate because they thought, you know, there’s a there’s a buck in my betting area.

00:48:54
Speaker 3: What else? You know, how could it be another person?

00:48:56
Speaker 4: Because I knew he was there or I had a good feeling it was there, and I was able to slipping close. And it’s just like you’re in that bubble and you’re making realistic sounds like of course he’s convinced that that’s a that’s a deer, and not you know, not a guy that’s twenty five up and up in the tree banging his antlers together. You know, it’s like these little things that make the biggest difference. But that versatility has allowed me to, I think, find success when maybe some of the basic stuff isn’t working or everybody’s using the basic stuff. Now. I know that doesn’t answer like the scouting question, but I do think. I do think being versatile as a hunter and having that mindset as you’re scouting, you know, you might be able to you might be able to conceptualize a different approach to the information you’re getting that might say like one step ahead of the competition.

00:49:55
Speaker 2: That’s I was curious about it. If you’re going into a hunt with that goal of being versatile, Like if I were going into this and I, let’s play hypothetical. Let’s say like I’ve always been a one trick pony hunter. I’ve always just ambushed. I know how to scout for that style of hunting. But what if this year my goal is like, Man, I’m gonna go outside of my box. I’m gonna try this stuff. I’m gonna try still hunting. I’m gonna go in and work my way in. I’m gonna hunt from the ground sometimes, I’m gonna try these different things. Should I be looking for different things when I’m scouting or thinking about my scouting differently in any way if I’m opening myself up to that kind of hunting now or is it all like I no matter what style of hunting, you should still be looking for the same things. You should still be, you know, connecting the dots like we talked about. Is it the same or is it different when you have this new approach.

00:50:47
Speaker 4: I think you can still scout and still look for that sign and still try to put all those pieces together, but have an open a mind of have an open mind of different ways to hunt that situation. You know, it might be Yes, I found the perfect funnel that’s you know, between two betting areas.

00:51:07
Speaker 3: It’s great.

00:51:08
Speaker 4: It’s a great pinch point. And I’m gonna get twenty five feet up and I’m gonna sit and I’m gonna wait.

00:51:12
Speaker 3: That’s great.

00:51:14
Speaker 4: But you, like you said, you might find yourself. That’s where everybody goes because it’s so obvious.

00:51:20
Speaker 3: So when you find.

00:51:21
Speaker 4: That, Okay, maybe that’s obvious, maybe there’s guys doing that.

00:51:25
Speaker 3: Well.

00:51:25
Speaker 4: I still know where the betting areas are. I still know where those dope betting areas are. Now maybe I’m gonna slip in from a different direction and I’m gonna hunt hunt my way in and get in tight. I’m gonna get in real tight to that betting, and I’m gonna hunt from the ground where those deer aren’t expecting me. You know, maybe you find something there that you can capitalize on. That’s just kind of off the top of my head. But I think like just still scouting, but having having that open mind of different way to to hunt in different ways to maybe capitalize on the situation. We were talking a little bit about that today, like I sent justin a polo. I said, do you remember that, I said, the buckbed that we found on the first public piece we walked. I said, you know, just going by what you saw, the sign that you read. We were there together, we saw all the same stuff. I said, tell me how you would hunt that deer, you know, what would what would be your approach? And he told me, you know, he sent the polo back. He told me, and he said, well how would you hunt it? And I said, well, that’s certainly one way that like, that’s one way I would do it. And then I thought, you know, because we found some other sign a little ways away, a big primary straight down in a thermal hub that was just over I saw to the north, you know, he he had he had worked his way to the south. That buck had worked his way to the south. That’s where the sign went. There was water holes up there. I had a feeling he was going up there out of bed, staging around that water, waiting till dark. And then I noticed to the north there’s giant crop fields. So it goes public and a piece of private ground that had great thick cover and.

00:53:15
Speaker 3: Then crop fields.

00:53:16
Speaker 4: I said, depending on you know, the oak production you know here in this in this this timber here on this ridge, you know, he might be working all the way to those those fields, like after dark.

00:53:29
Speaker 3: So even though the sign led to the south.

00:53:32
Speaker 4: I almost had a feeling he was going up there, maybe having a drink, marking some sign up on the ridge, and then actually working down into the bottom and working to.

00:53:41
Speaker 3: Those crop fields at a certain point season.

00:53:43
Speaker 4: So I had like three different scenarios where I was like, I could hunt him this way, I could hunt him this way, I could hunt him over at that primary scrape in the next thermalhob that’s that’s really just over the ridge. So there was there was three situations there that I thought that book potentially could be killable. So you know, if I were to go to hunt it, I might try one approach, and if I’m running into people or you know, I don’t have the encounter, I might I might go to that second approach. That was an example of that that I thought was really interesting that we had. We had similar thoughts, but then when we started talking about different tactics, different options with that same buck, with that same general information, there was a lot of possibilities there, you know, and depending on the terrain, different types of habitat and stuff, like I hunt a lot of you know, kind of open country, open ground a lot of times, like guys want to be up in a tree. I feel like a lot of times I’m at an advantage in the ground. You know, I’m an advantage. I have an advantage out.

00:54:57
Speaker 3: In the open.

00:54:58
Speaker 4: I can I can decoy while everybody else is in the little bit of timber there is. So I’m trying to do things a little different. Even though those spots that are in are it’s a great funnel man, that’s a great betting area. Like yeah, I would hunt that too, but like that’s where the people are, That’s where the guys that know all this information, that’s what they’re doing.

00:55:16
Speaker 3: They found it.

00:55:17
Speaker 4: So my approach might be, Okay, I’m gonnahunt away from that. I’ll be open, try to catch these bucks coming and going, or get these these bucks that are getting pressured out of there that are living, moving, searching in the open. And maybe I have a decoy, or maybe I’m spotting and stalking on the ground, or I’m slipping around, you know, from cover to cover and trying to you know, take advantage that way. So that’s an example of like when you can be versatile or you have that that those skills to pull from. Maybe when the textbook style or the textbook you know, ambush spots that everybody knows about that everybody’s trying to do. That’s that’s what can set you apart, and not everybody has that, you know, in the repertoire you do like I’ve seen you do it, You’ve done it well, you’ve done it successfully, so you have that confidence like, yeah, there might have been you know, on some of those Nebraska hunts, there might have been an area you wanted to hunt, but man, some guys moved in and you had to pivot, you know, so you had to figure something out. Next thing, you know, you’re on the ground with a decoy and you’re having encounters, so you know, and there’s more and more guys getting versatile too and more skilled, so the competition is elevating. You know, there’s no doubt, so you can adapt and elevate yourself or things.

00:56:40
Speaker 3: Are going to get tough.

00:56:40
Speaker 4: So it’s it’s it’s certainly in a lot of ways more challenging than it used to be because there just wasn’t that many hardcore guys back then and now there are and there are guys that have hunted for less than ten years that are way more now eligible or you know, as you know, as knowledgeable as some of the you know, the great really, you know, because if you think about it, a lot of those guys were hunting at a time where there was less bow hunters, less bow hunting competition, and now there’s all kinds of stuff. There’s all this information. Guys are taking it in. Guys are out there just grinding and you know, quitting their day job and hunting NonStop, and it’s just like blows my mind. There’s a lot of great hunters out there. But I also see things going a different way too. I see guys getting lazy with the cameras. They’re letting their cameras do the work for them. They’re letting the cameras tell them when and where to hunt. And the guy that has that woodsmanship, the guy that has that versatility, the guy that can put the pieces together when he sees them through scouting, is going to have that edge because there are a lot of guys that are just planting cameras everywhere and then hunting or that biggest buck you know, pings on that camera. So there’s a mix. There’s guys that get after it and there’s guys that hunt that way. And if there’s guys that are hunting that way. There seems to be a big portion of guys hunt that way. Now, I do think that guy that you know has that woodsmanship and puts in that time, has that versatility that he’s working on. I think I think that guy will in the long run continue to be successful.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, kind of like you you kind of led with this. You mentioned how oh you know now today I don’t have to go and scout as much as I did. I don’t have to do I don’t need to pound the payment all the time like I used to, because there’s all these I know how to use these tools to be more efficient and to e scout and understand these things. And there’s all these tools like cameras, like the knowledge we have about the conventional places that deer do X or dear do Y or all that stuff, and that’s available to everybody now. And like you said, so many people have access to that and know that that it’s it’s easier than ever to.

00:58:58
Speaker 3: Reach a certain level of like competency.

00:59:01
Speaker 2: But then if you want to take that next step, which is having success above and beyond the average despite all the competition, despite those challenges, it still comes down to what you said in the very beginning, which is like the actual experience that got you to the point where you can leverage those tools to their fullest, so you can actually have that on the grounds, on the ground insight to pivot when you need to pit, to pivot to understand how the puzzle pieces actually come together, not how they’re supposed to come together, not what the experts say it’s supposed to mean, but what your real life, true lived experience has told you, and how you can adjust to what you know. The on the ground circumstances is like, yeah, it’s great to be efficient, and there is definitely efficiencies to be gained, but the only way you get to that point is with good old fashioned hard work and developing that well of experience and that you know, all the podcasts, all the social media, all the YouTube videos, it can’t shortcut that, truly. You still you still need that. So so tell me this to wrap it up, Andy, if you could go back in time, Let’s let’s kind of end where we began. Let’s go back to twenty sixteen, Andy, twenty years back. Let’s go back to two thousand and six. Andy, All right, so you were you were killing a lot of deer back then. You were definitely in the in the heat of it still, but not old salty Andy that we have now, what what do you wish you could go back to that guy and tell him about about this topic? What do you wish you could tell two thousand and six Andy May about scouting that. Of course, you know you can’t shortcut the twenty years of experience, But what do you wish that person knew that could have helped you better take advantage of the experience that you would gain for these next two decades.

01:01:02
Speaker 3: M hmm. Yeah, that’s a really good question.

01:01:08
Speaker 4: You know, when I when I think about two thousand and six, Andy, I.

01:01:18
Speaker 3: Was scouting a lot like I do now.

01:01:20
Speaker 4: To be honest with yeah, I didn’t have the knowledge, but I was scouting maybe even harder than I do now in a lot of ways. It was just at that age where things were really I was really fired up and I was really in that learning phase. And yeah I was I was shooting some nice deer that were mostly rut related deer. But gosh, what would I tell him to do differently that would help me? I certainly wasn’t very versatile back then. I was a rut hunter, you know pretty much much. That’s that’s when I killed my deer, even though I was trying to kill.

01:02:03
Speaker 3: Him in other ways.

01:02:06
Speaker 4: So if I could go back and tell maybe two thousand and six Andy and maybe tell it, give him a few tips of how he could be more successful back in two thousand and six, or maybe kind of just insert that that knowledge into him, or insert that that scouting, that type of scouting tactics into him. Would be to learn to scout for other parts of the season, you know, try to put more emphasis on finding dough, betting on individual buck beds, try to gain more knowledge on.

01:02:47
Speaker 3: The variety of food choices that the deer have in the areas of your hunting. Like I didn’t really.

01:02:52
Speaker 4: Know any of that back then, you know, I knew oaks and apples and water, you know, But now, you know, I’m still learning that stuff, especially as I traveled a different I’m learning about all these oak trees that like, some of them I’ve never even heard of, you know that, because we don’t have them here, and you know, some of them like post oaks and chestnut oaks and black oaks like not like stuff that we just don’t have a lot of and how you know how valuable those can be at certain times of the season. Like, I’m learning that stuff more and more as the years go by. But I would insert that knowledge into two thousand and six Andy of you know, yes, you’re pretty good at that scouting during the run.

01:03:37
Speaker 3: You can pick out those funnels, you can read.

01:03:39
Speaker 4: Some sign you can find some dough betting areas, you can find those those good funnels, and you can you grind it out. You can do those all day sits and you can you know, you’ll never quit. You’re you’re so stubborn and you’re you’re willing to sit all day every day and you’re gonna kill some stuff. But there’s so much that you don’t know. And this is why you’re not killing them early. This is why you’re not killing them late. So I would I would insert that those scouting tactics into two thousand and six Andy of learning to scout through for other parts of the season outside of that rut. I was very kind of locked into that timeframe. So, Yeah, identifying a variety of food that’s available to the whitetail in the area of your hunting, I think that’s I think that stuff is so overlooked, and it’s so important too, because there’s so much out there. A very high percentage of their their diet is brows, right, you know, a super high percentage. So like being able to identify you know, different brows, dreambrier, red osier, dogwood, and all these different things that are out there that most people don’t even talk about. Those are so important and they can lead you to you know, leads you to deer in the in the late season when everyone else is struggling and they’re looking at their know, they’re cut cornfield expecting deer to come out, but the combines are so effective. Now there’s no corn loft. Yeah, you know, so those types of things. I really didn’t have that knowledge. I really didn’t know what to look for, and I’m I’m getting more of that now over the past.

01:05:18
Speaker 3: Like ten ten years or so.

01:05:20
Speaker 4: So I would insert that into two thousand and six Andy to kind of make him more effected, more deadly throughout the season, as opposed to just break there in the rut.

01:05:32
Speaker 3: Well, I’ll tell you one thing.

01:05:34
Speaker 2: I am glad that this is just a thought exercise and not something that’s actually possible, because if two thousand and six Andy, had all the knowledge that you have now, there wouldn’t be a mature buck left in Michigan for the rest of us to hunt. So I’m very glad that you didn’t figure that out until later in life. Andy, And I appreciate you. Know I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. I appreciate the that not only are you a great deer hunter, but you’re a humble one and one willing to share your knowledge and help others too. That’s that’s a unique quality, and it makes you not only a good friend, but also a really good person to be a part of our community. So thank you for that, and thanks for taking time late tonight to talk.

01:06:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciate, I appreciate the kind words, and I value, always value our conversations on our friendship.

01:06:25
Speaker 3: So thank you.

01:06:27
Speaker 2: Let’s do it again sooner than it’s taken to get this, to get this chat in the calendar, and good luck with that Illinois trip.

01:06:34
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks buddy, all.

01:06:37
Speaker 2: Right, and that’s going to do it for us today. Thanks for being here. I hope this one armed you with a few new ideas that you can take into the field this week. It’s coming weekend, Great time to be out there scouting. So get out there, put some miles on the boots, get to know your property or your local public land a little bit better. Take that next step, and I guarantee you it’s going to help you this come hunting season next time. Thanks for being here, and stay wired to hunt. Mm hmm